KOHLE SAUER WASSER Trailer
In the midst of a shiny landscape there is a moving black spot. Its a human. He is looking for something. KOHLE SAUER WASSER is a dance film that shows the interaction of two performers within a landscape formed out of P.E.T flakes.
Interview: Zoë Schreckenberg
Interview by Melissa Ramos recorded between Australia & Austria
ABOUT Zoë Schreckenberg
Zoë Schreckenberg is a German dancer, choreographer and filmmaker. Her artistic practice is focused on physical movement and image-based media. In addition to contemporary dance, her training consists of fighting methods, film stunts and bouldering. She successfully completed her studies at the University of Vienna with a Bachelor's degree in Theatre, Film and Media Studies. She received a contemporary dance education auto-didactically through intensive summer programs and movement research projects in various dance institutions and festivals in Europe. Her current dance film "KOHLE SAUER WASSER" won an award at the International Dance Film Festival in Brussels.
www.zoeschreckenberg.com
www.zoeschreckenberg.com
FULL IntervieW Transcript
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'KOHLE SAUER WASSER' proposes a way of thinking about movement, a reflection on our influence with the environment. Set within a mass landscape filled with recycled plastic, it questions the relationship between the body, to the material society, to the individual and to the environment, becoming and dissolving.
The movement duet is an allegory about how people act and relate to each other, and how that echoes into the environment. Our thoughts and actions influence the world, reflecting on consequences and how that influences identity, community, environment and our futures. --- Melissa Ramos: How did you begin working on your dance film and what were the ideas that inspired your artistic decisions? Zoë Schreckenberg: The first really basic idea was to make a dance movie that explores the interaction between body movement and the material. But I wasn't quite sure at that time, at that very beginning what kind of material it's going to be. I wanted it to be for example, stones, wood or iron. Also for the performers to experience, to touch it, to use it in a way. I was sure that I wanted to have a duet. It was a specific image in my mind, a duet of two performers and the material to be a third protagonist in it. Somehow the topic of influence and consequence came up. I wanted the performers to influence the material and vice versa. And also that the material is somehow a consequence of the performer's action and vice versa. And so I kept researching for the material. And I slowly felt; also I didn't want to show a direct influence of the interactions. But more as an echo, you know, like as a deeper layer. Like a trace. Something that is there to be read. Like a landscape, you're living in and you transform. But the landscape is an architectural influence your way of actions. You know, I'm more referring to the material. And I want to show a cycle of constant ongoing influences and consequences happening. My project develop then quite fast when I found my material plastic. I like very much the aesthetics about it. This was one aspect, really primitive but for me very strong. Also this transparency, this shininess. And the appearance of purity somehow and this clinical hygiene when it comes out of the production in a new state. This was one aspect and the other aspect was still the philosophical aspect about it, because I associate 'plastic' as waste. I had many inspirations from different questions that came up in my mind, like what waste can be, what is waste? Is it like a left over of humanity? Like in a very dramatic way or. Yeah. Is it a consequence of life? You know, because you produce so much for our consumption, our daily needs. And then also further; the immaterial things, you know, could feelings, thoughts and movements be waste or become waste? As soon as you move and then it's done. So it's living in the past. But it produces something, maybe not nothing that you can touch. For the project, I wanted to have a lot of the material in this case. I want to have a lot of plastic. But I didn't want to buy plastic. I mean, financially and somehow, morally, I couldn't accept it. So I was talking to a friend of my parents. He works in the recycling industry in Austria. And he suggested to me, why not to check out recycling material. They are still plastic, but there's somehow in an in-between state. And I felt this was a really great idea. So I started to do research. And when I went to different companies in the countryside of Austria who recycle waste and I found three. I visit them and I actually made also a short documentary series of photos of the factory buildings and the recycling process. And there I found the final product that I chose, P.E.T. Flakes, these transparent flakes. You see, this is a plastic that comes from the family of polyester. These these P.E.T flakes, they refer to this polyester. I mean, there are kind of polyester. And they're mostly used for production of plastic bottles and also the clothing industry or textile fibres. They shred all these plastic bottles and then these P.E.T flakes come out of it and then they clean it and make it food compatible again so they can reuse it. And I got really attracted by it, just by the image and also by all the means for me that it had with the associations. So, yeah, I mean, in addition to all the questions that I had about what plastic can be, it became more of a project as it developed further. I had also ideas about when I choose this kind of P.E.T flakes that are reusable, recycled. What does it mean to waste? When I think about waste, that old things can become new again. If waste is a production of the past, also, you know, can it also live in moments or movements and thoughts be recycled and reused again. Like where does the circle of re-use even begin? You know, it does recycling even have a beginning? And do our actions of now combined. Always a part of the past, like used for bottles in Austria. There are at least I think, approximately 30 per cent made of recycled P.E.T flakes so all these new questions came up and I really liked it. And it was a really organic creation process I would say, that lead me to the material and at the end to the choreography and the movie. 
"What does it mean to the waste? When I think about waste, that old things can become new again. If waste is a production of the past, can it also live in moments or movements and can thoughts be recycled and reused again."
Melissa Ramos: What set of questions that you are asking about what is waste and what can it be... Zoë Schreckenberg: When we think about waste, there's always an object of it. We have plastic bottles. We have food packaging. We have any kind of waste. I mean, it's a it's just a word that describes it. But I was thinking about when I saw the material that what if I associate this material with...How can I say. You know if you think about. Thoughts? You have a thought and you think about it, and then it's been thought. You know it's done. I mean, you say if you see it at the timeline, I know you start to think about it and then it's done and then maybe you have a solution out of it or, an inspiration out of something that makes you act and you cannot touch it. I grasp this thought. Can I hold it in your hand? But still, it's done and it's a left over. That's what I mean with immaterial. You don't have a body to it. You don't have an object. You cannot hold it. You cannot attach it. But maybe waste could be also movement. Melissa Ramos: Where does it go? Do you question about the movement of where this event occurs. This immaterial process. Do you think about what happens after? What do you feel? Zoë Schreckenberg: Yeah. Like what happens after. I have two things I have to say. I think about it. One is that the experience and the memories. There are also some leftovers. Leftovers, I mean, this sounds a bit like a leftover, food left over, but like a remaining. And so it makes sense for me if I draw this picture in my mind that I have a thought and I think it's done. And then what comes out of it is maybe a solution. And then I act on the solution. And then I have this experience that it came out of process. And for sure, nothing is left. But I can go back to the chain of actions and I find this thought at the beginning. So, I mean, it's not always connotative. Does it make sense in english? Connotative to do a negative thing. Waste is just something that happened in the past that make you do other things. And this is interesting. And what I'm seeing in this recycling or in this cycle of consequences and influences that may be out of this experience that you had. You bring it still with you and you create something new. But there's still a percentage of things that you created before. I don't know if that's too abstract. (laughs). Melissa Ramos: I totally understand where you're coming from. But you're using this material as a metaphor as well, in a way. Zoë Schreckenberg: Exactly. To come to my second thought is that this material gave me this association.That was one idea, for example, that I see this dimension, this mass amount of P.E.T flakes. It becomes a landscape in the movie. A landscape that you see. But maybe as an idea, as you know, is just an image. It could have been also created from the performers, for example, like the remaining of their movement they've done before or thoughts of what they had before or feelings or, you know, all that comes with it. And so maybe it's not just a landscape that is there, but maybe it is also transforming with the actions that are happening in it. And so it's an ongoing organic organism. 
Melissa Ramos: What did you do with the material after the shoot? Zoë Schreckenberg: Yeah, I couldn't somehow except the fact that if I have this material, I would just like throw it away or what should I do. So that's why I talked with the company and I said I really would love to have these flakes as a sponsor. And then you take it back. You bring it to me. I use it. You can take it back. And then at the end, I negotiated eight big bags, which are in total four tons of this P.E.T flakes. And I actually for this interview, I calculated these four tons of P.E.T flakes. There are approximately 160,000 plastic bottles. I mean, they used to be and they're going to be that. And so after the shoot, we had to collect all of those. P.E.T flakes. Yeah, it was a lot of work. But yeah, it was worth it anyways. And it was nice. So many friends came to help and we put them back in those big bags and the company, they took it then they were used again. Melissa Ramos: What does the title of your dance film signify? Zoë Schreckenberg: It's actually refers to the chemical formula of plastic because plastic in general consists mainly of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen. Melissa Ramos: Okay. I tried to translate it, but I didn't understand it. Zoë Schreckenberg: Also because of course, for the sound and for that aesthetic reason, also artistic reason, I cut the words. So it does mean carbon, but then for hydrogen and oxygen it's, it's a short, it's a short version. It refers to those chemicals. Melissa Ramos: The location space feature as almost a character in your film. There seems to be a focus on the relationship between the two bodies and the landscape. And you spoke about that before, how this constant influence from the body and the landscape and vice versa. Is this something that interests you, the relationship between bodies and elements with landscape in that cause and effect? Is that something that you've worked on before or is this a new sort of exploration in your work? Zoë Schreckenberg: It was my intention to create a landscape with this material, also to give the landscape the possibility to act as a third protagonist besides the dancers. So, this was my intention. I think it's where I shoot or where I dance or where I create things. It has a big influence on what's happening and what's being created. So, I think it will always be there. Melissa Ramos: Could you describe the decisions for the choreography? And what inspired you to develop this duet? Zoë Schreckenberg: I wanted to work with a colleague and a very good friend of mine, Junior. That's the other performer. You can see because I'm one of the performers and Junior is the other one. It was important for me. I'm inspired by him and how we worked together. It's really, really lovely. He's a great human being to hang around with dance and philosophy with for the project. I knew I wanted to work with him. And so it really depends with with whom you work, how the project turns out to be. And so for these choreography, we haven't had so much time to rehearse together, but a couple of times we did. We talked for hours before we even started to make one move, and I really appreciated that. It created a nice atmosphere in which we completely could dive in. And as soon as we started to move, we had actually nothing left to say. So I like really much these days concentrated atmosphere. And so what was the first steps to the choreography was that I always brought the sample off of the plastic of the P.E.T flakes. And with this one we created different scenes and movement situations. In general, what's possible between the body and the material, you know, and how as a dancer, how does it feel to touch it, to step on it? You know how it feels on the skin, how you how to disappear in it or how to take a shower with it to bury someone with it, you know, to use it as a gift, as a danger is sit in space for emotions or as stones to throw or is like a healing cream that you gently rub. I don't know, like, all those crazy things. You just I don't know. You're just crazy in the studio. You try different things and then out of these scenes or out of these improvised moments, emotions appear and then several movement patterns and these ones I picked and then I combined them and we somehow created this choreography together. I would say I mean, for sure I did the most of the decisions at the end, like what I want to have because I was talking also with a cameraman how to put the things in scene. But for me, yeah, like I said, I like very much the concentrated atmosphere that we created and I wanted to have that in the movie. And then also this awareness of sudden movements popping up, which was a specific aspect of it. And also this ambivalence of attacking and carrying of one another. Melissa Ramos: The condense studio experience. How long did you guys work together in this space? And did you have someone looking from the outside? Zoë Schreckenberg: No, no. We had only two sessions in the studio. Very less. I didn't want us to feel this time pressure. So when you met we really had a lot of hours added together, like we had a lot of time went for one day, but on and on we just met two times in the studio and we never went to this to the big space. The big space was only then there when we shoot and before for sure, I would take video footage of it. I mean, I was recording it, but there was no one with us. I mean, it just not possible for us to do it like that. I mean, I would have loved to have someone there during the rehearsals, but it was just the two of us for the beginning. Melissa Ramos: With each dancer yourself and your collaborator. Was there a particular rhythm that you had for each character, for the dance to duet? Or did you just focus specifically on the subtlety of each movement and just the different questions? Zoë Schreckenberg: I always saw us as two moving elements. There were scenes coming up and some stories coming up, but I didn't want it to be...Yeah, when I was combining different scenes and so for me, the movements were very important, but also the movement within the landscape. And then, you know, to have a closer look what we are doing it and then have a wider what's happening around us. So it was more like when we moved, we moved together. And yes, there was different qualities, but there was not an intention on my side to put different rhythms within some physicality on each dancer. Melissa Ramos: So one of the things dance does for me is this spatial awareness and I experience and my relationship to my environment, this concept that as we occupy the world, the awareness of the spaces that we inhabit and how we pay attention to. What does the concept to you, spatial awareness signify for you as a dancer, and artist? And do you explore ways to convey this in your work somehow? Zoë Schreckenberg: Yes, spatial awareness. I mean, it's a nice key word. It's also a great master key. When you're, you know, when you dance, and when you're choreograph or as a director also to use it. For me as a dancer, your movement needs space. You travel through space while moving, and it's nice to explore also the space, the negative space, like around things or in between things. This has very much value for me, for dance, I guess in general. Make the space around you in which you move. But also the space within you. And yeah as a choreographer, it's nice to make the performers explore. The space or the different places within the room or between performers. So this is present. It's always present. I think so. While performing its present way of creating its present and also as a director, you know, I think it's nice to go to different perspectives of space. And in my case, I think It happens automatically. But in the movie, I decided to have lots of the material, you know, like creating this massive landscape of P.E.T flakes. And I also wanted the spectator to have this experience of space, this dimension. So for sure, I included it. And one of the main shots, the top shot, you know. To find different camera angles in order to give the different perspectives of space. 
"I act on the solution. And then I have this experience that it came out of process". Melissa Ramos: So as a dancer, what did the first three words that come to your mind when you think about dance? Zoë Schreckenberg: Personally, for me, I would say 'freedom', 'feeling' and dissolving. Melissa Ramos: What happens after you dissolve? Zoë Schreckenberg: I like to dissolve in the way that it has different images for me. One is the image of that I connect with everything. That's what you dissolve. It's just not relevant anymore. Somehow. And then there's another one to dissolving that you disappear in a way. But dissolving is like also the smooth way of disappearing. To forget time to forget a bit about yourself. And that's why you're just dissolving in something, something different or just the atmosphere. Or maybe you just don't take yourself so important in that very moment. Melissa Ramos: What are the places that you may find yourself dancing in? Zoë Schreckenberg: Almost everywhere. I think, you know, I find myself between dancing between cars in the parking lot. Actually, it was a sad dance, but it was nice. And I know in my grandmother's living room or into the train platform, you know, I don't know. Also, it's doesn't always have to be obvious. You know, sometimes, of course, by you want to give so many so much energy and have some, I guess, so many dynamic movements, but sometimes it's just nice to be somewhere. And then maybe you listen to music and then you feel the small movements coming up. But you don't have to express it to everyone. It's just for yourself. So that's why I think it's for me, it's everywhere. Sometimes I show it, sometimes I don't. Melissa Ramos: And how does stillness occur in your work does? Are you also focusing on stillness? Zoë Schreckenberg: Yeah. A lot actually. I mean to use it as a composition tool also with stillness. And then you create a bit of attention and want people to see or feel something afterwards. And this what comes afterwards is maybe even more present than before. If it would have just happened like that or stillness in the way that other senses can be activated, maybe more to the listening or maybe even more to the visual part or. Yeah, stillness is also something that's referring me to the off. Something that is not there, but still, you have maybe like an echo that something happened and then there's stillness. So it's an empty picture or like an empty atmosphere. But you still have the feeling of the other thing that happened before or what you saw before, what you experienced before. And maybe that in that moment you're still as a dancer or you're you only see stillness or an empty picture as a spectator. But it refers to something that will be there soon or something that you can only hear from the off space or maybe something that is an echo that you just see again and again. But it's not there because you've seen it some minutes before. Melissa Ramos: Your work is strongly influenced by your training in contemporary dance. How did you become interested in fighting techniques and film stunts? How did you use this in your movement techniques for your work? Zoë Schreckenberg: I guess I was always interested in physical demanding training and I love partner work. I just really enjoy doing partner work. Yeah, the fighting techniques give me personally a different perspective somehow to perceive situations on people, how to stay with myself, how to find the resting place within myself in this body and mind stability and adaptability and how to cope with stress also. And also at the same time it teaches me these techniques teach me to react to my surroundings and to deal with potential conflicts. Maybe they don't have to. I don't know. Burst into a big fight or to big thing. But just to know how can I react? Or maybe just with micro movements or micro-actions, I learned how to pass energy, how to quickly generate energy and to hold to absorb energy. And for this, I during the last year, I've gotten to know a Russian fighting technique which I'm very fond of. I like different aspects of the constitution of the body, you know, being liquid and loose at the same time, be stable. And also how to breathe. I mean, all those things you also learn within contemporary dance. But it's just another influence that I had and that I really enjoy. And it's also how to influence another body. And this is what I'm also interested, you know, how can we work together in movement, with movement techniques and also use the physical law instead of wanting so much and putting too much emotions inside the movement? I mean, for sure, the emotions, it's a very important part of feelings. But just for the technique, you know, how can I use it. So this is one part of it, that I learned how to destroy and heal. It's just how you use it. I've done a workshop in Austria in film stunt. And met a stuntman and stunt coordinator in Paris. I had, of course, so many questions about how can I fall? How can I jump and roll and crash on things? And I'm still learning. You know, I'm very at the very beginning because the film stunts is something very new to me. And so, yeah, I'm very interested in how to train in a safe environment or how can train safely. How can I repeat movements? It's also what you need to know in contemporary dance. I mean, if you want to perform, you need to know how to move your choreography and do it many, many times. So this movement principles and techniques, I like to use them and then work for the exact same reason. How can I train with people and how can I work with people and create with people. Something like going to a safer environment and how can I be able to perform it with the same dynamics to know and how can I work with my partner? How can I move with his energy and or her energy? Melissa Ramos: Do you sort of bring across those techniques into contemporary dance and vice versa? And do you also work with non-dancers in dance works? Zoë Schreckenberg: Yeah, I mean, you know what? This is actually one of my next projects that I am into it. I mean, I just as I said, I just got to know film stunts. And obviously I'm very interested in how film stunts are made because of the camera techniques. I'm creating performances, but I'm also creating movies. So I want to know how can I show and put movement in scene with the help of the camera? So this is like film stunts. To have a lot of research and deep knowledge of that. The other aspects is that I want to say that I've never worked professionally as a stuntwoman, but I really would love to combine contemporary dance with film stunts and would be also nice to work in this context with people that I've never been in a professional dance scene stuntman stuntwomen. And they, you know, I can put them in a scene, with my dance background. So this is really something I'm in to for sure. |
"The topic of influence and consequence came up for me. I wanted the performers to influence the material... And also that the material is somehow a consequence of the performers"... 
P.E.T-flakes
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KOHLE SAUER WASSER CREDITS:
Website plasticdancemovie.com
Duration 11 min.
Production Year 2018
Director & Producer Zoë Schreckenberg
Performer Zoë Schreckenberg | Mufutau Yusuf
Second Director & Production Manager Lukas Ipsmiller
Director of Photography Sebastian Arlamovsky
Camera Assistant Simon Graf
Gaffer Horst Bilek
Best Boy Matthias Ganster
Make up Artist Daniela Paukovits
Construction Crew Christoph Storn | Béla Schreckenberg | Alireza Toghyiani | Stefan Rigger | Paul Leitner
Production Sound Mixer Luigi Fischer
Editor Zoë Schreckenberg
Sound Editor & Composer Sebastian Wasner
Sound Mastering Nick Hanzo
Color Grader Christopher Hosp
Graphics Micha Pichlkastner
Catering Restaurant Petit Maroc
Set Photographer Roland Rudolph
Location METAStadt
Sponsors ARA | PET2PET | METAStadt | Schreckenberg Film
Award International Dancefilmfestival Brussels 2019
Duration 11 min.
Production Year 2018
Director & Producer Zoë Schreckenberg
Performer Zoë Schreckenberg | Mufutau Yusuf
Second Director & Production Manager Lukas Ipsmiller
Director of Photography Sebastian Arlamovsky
Camera Assistant Simon Graf
Gaffer Horst Bilek
Best Boy Matthias Ganster
Make up Artist Daniela Paukovits
Construction Crew Christoph Storn | Béla Schreckenberg | Alireza Toghyiani | Stefan Rigger | Paul Leitner
Production Sound Mixer Luigi Fischer
Editor Zoë Schreckenberg
Sound Editor & Composer Sebastian Wasner
Sound Mastering Nick Hanzo
Color Grader Christopher Hosp
Graphics Micha Pichlkastner
Catering Restaurant Petit Maroc
Set Photographer Roland Rudolph
Location METAStadt
Sponsors ARA | PET2PET | METAStadt | Schreckenberg Film
Award International Dancefilmfestival Brussels 2019
